1. Recently Clr. Green announced that he would be bringing forth a motion to council, to suggest that HSR be deemed the operator/maintainer of the LRT system in Hamilton, should it proceed. Given that the suggestion is coming a little late in the process, how are you receiving it? Do you see it as more of a symbolic gesture or do you see it as meaningful?
We believe strongly that public transit is a public service and that it should remain under public control. As the HSR is the public transit system here in Hamilton, it makes absolutely no sense to privatize LRT and have two systems. Our members can easily be retrained to operate and maintain LRT, so there really is no valid reason why HSR should not be running the new LRT system in Hamilton. In regards to the issue of timing we believe that during the operating agreement discussions is the best time to negotiate the best agreement for our transit system. Atu has been very vocal in our communications with Metro-linx and the Province both publicly and privately that the 3ps process is not acceptable in Hamilton so it should have been understood that we will be seeking a Hamilton solution.
2. Are you convinced that you have the necessary support to have your members treated fairly in this matter, or are you of the view that there is a significant struggle still ahead?
We are convinced that keeping transit public is the right thing to do. And we’re convinced that privatization of the LRT will not produce the kind of robust and accountable transit system that all Hamiltonians deserve. We believe that the public is on our side on this matter - we’ve seen how the privatization of hydro went. Our rates went up and we’re still holding the bag for the debt.
I am hopeful that our City council will stand with us to ensure our members, passengers and community are treated fairly.
3. Is there anything else you’d like our readers to know about your local ATU’s views on LRT in Hamilton, at this juncture?
Our goal is to ensure that we keep transit public in Hamilton and that the highest standards are maintained.
That is why we have launch our keeptransitpublic.ca campaign and are asking Hamiltonians to sign our petition.
We support the best possible future of transit in this city and know that our whole city would benefit from a successful Public Transit System.
We want the best LRT possible and believe that Hamiltonians deserve nothing less.
Public operation and maintenance will contribute to a better overall transit experience for riders and workers alike.
Thanks Eric for engaging with Hamiltonians via The Hamiltonian. To see Mr. Tuck's previous chat with us, click here.
What if LRT O&M went to another union?
ReplyDeleteDias
Whoever was proposing such a development would be publicly disrespecting ATU.
DeleteShow your face.
Action
It's not a proposal, just a question.
DeleteLet's try another... say... LRT remains publicly held but not run by the city...
Dias
let's try another, allow the Public to determine whether LRT should proceed, and if so, who should operate it.
DeleteJackson
The decision has been made. Do you actually think theres a chance LRT wont be built?
DeleteDias
yes.
DeleteG.I.
We should nail down the real concerns of those claiming to be worried local ATU wont be operating the LRT.
DeleteCause the concerns keep changing in breadth and scope.
At first the main issue was HSR ATU members losing their jobs. This has been addressed. The ATU drivers on the routes being converted to LRT wont be losing their jobs as drivers as they will be redeployed to other routes in the city. NO HSR ATU jobs lost due to LRT.
Now it seems some say the LRT HAS to be run and operated by the HSR? They havent given one god reason. The HSR has no experience running LRT and no trained operators.
The the hogwash about "privatization" which has been debunked by every source.
Oh well. The anti LRT lobby are using some thin excuses these days.
Stompin Cam
Hamilton Street Railway is a public transport agency, responsible for the operation of all public transport in the City of Hamilton.
DeleteMetrolinx is a Crown Corporation who intends to transfer over operation of Hamilton's LRT to a private consortium for 30 years.
Privatization is "the transfer of a business, industry or service from public to private ownership and control."
T.Hunter
Definition of "Privatization" from The Economic Times: The transfer of ownership, property or business from the government to the private sector is termed privatization. The government ceases to be the owner of the entity or business.
DeleteMetrolinx will retain 100% ownership of all LRT assets at all times. No transfer of ownership or property or any assets will happen even when the day to day operations are contracted out for a limited period of time.
Stompin Cam
yes, privatization, defined.
DeleteT.Hunter
Glad that the ATU supports LRT!
ReplyDeleteFare
interestingly, that has never been said by Tuck-or anyone else at ATU.
DeleteThey have been decidedly neutral on the issue, they are transit operators, not politicians.
"You decide the mode, we'll move the load"
Buster
See above: "We want the best LRT possible and believe that Hamiltonians deserve nothing less."
DeleteFare
in the all or nothing world of LRT advocacy, the ATU's ambivalence on light rail placed them squarely on the Foe list, unleashing a torrent of anonymous insult.
DeleteAnd by disrespecting such a key and informed partner, LRT advocates created their own Achilles heal, a serious miscalculation which could have been avoided with dialogue and mutual interest.
"The ATU's ambivalence"?
DeleteTuck: "We want the best LRT possible and believe that Hamiltonians deserve nothing less."
Sounds pretty unequivocal to me.
Fare
"Eric Tuck, President of ATU 107, emphasized his union is very deliberately refraining from public advocacy for or against light rail itself...
Delete"It's not our role to decide, what we are saying is that we are against privatization of public transit, It is my belief public transit should remain in the hands of the public"
Hamilton Spectator "Will they or wont they on LRT"
4/26/17
orangemike
Problem solved. Confusion not needed.
Delete"Ontario Transportation Ministry official says Hamilton LRT will remain in public hands"
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7410374-ontario-transportation-ministry-official-says-hamilton-lrt-will-remain-in-public-hands/
Talizan
by turning over operation to a private consortium.
Deletemakes sense.
Mustapha
By allowing a corporation, public or private, to operate the LRT for the Government for a specific time period. The Govenment will retain 100% ownership of all assets.
DeleteMakes perfect sense for the taxpayers and for the users.
Talizan
for 30 years, or until the asset is of zero value
DeleteHakeem
Solution: City invests 1/3 of capital costs in project, and revises the RFP to allow bidding on the O&M contract.
DeleteGO Transit, which has been crewed by private corporations since 1995, put its crews contract out to tender in 2008 after CN declined to bid after its 40-year contract expired (a contract that didn't allow GO to penalize CN for late trains caused by CN issues). Veiling and Bombardier bid on that contract and Bombardier (who provided fleet maintenance to GO Transit since 1997 and won the operations contract in 2008; in 2012, those two contracts were extended to 2023, at which point the contracts will be tendered yet again).
Viajero
Fred vetoes your plan
DeleteFred
As I have warned Mr. Tuck in the past in the previous thread, politicians will now be all nicey nicey to you. But the writing is on the wall and I find it very interesting that ATU is beign treated as an afterthought rather than at the forefront of such a huge project. Which, by the way, is doomed
ReplyDeleteSorce
From what i gather, the union =takes no stance on to LRT or not to LRT. But they are saying that if it is determined that we will LRT, that they should be the maintenance and operators.
ReplyDeleteSorce
With zero trained LRT operators or mechanics or maintenance personnel on the HSR payroll.
DeleteCindy Lou
and which private Consortium has the employee's you envision?
DeleteEbeneezer
SNC - Lavolin/Aecon in Toronto for the Eglington Crosstown LRT
Deletehttps://www.wsj.com/articles/snc-lavalin-aecon-consortium-awarded-light-rail-project-in-toronto-1433868673
GrandLinq/Keolis in Kitchener Waterloo LRT
http://www.sncf.com/en/news/keolis-tram-waterloo-canada
AECOM in Ottawa for the Ottawa LRT
Cindy Lou
Aecon has led the Consortium's you reference, and will very likely be leading ours.
DeleteAccording to their website, what they do is (at least in part) Infrastructure projects, and specifically public transit. They list 22 capabilities, from engineering and integration to landscaping.
Yet they make no mention of their ability to supply the staff of trained operators, mechanics or maintenance staff required required. Is it a secret?
HSR is as close as we will get to trained transit staff.
Rolf
imagine trying to suggest operating light rail would somehow require more skill than driving a bus.
Deletethey don't even have to steer.
Jeesh.
orangemike
Or that bus maintenance crews would be unable to maintain a train. Basically a box on wheels. How hard could it be?
DeleteEasy Peasy
Mr.Green has repeatedly claimed to be the HSR's biggest supporter on Council.
ReplyDeleteHe demonstrated his loyalty by voting in favour of privatizing the route with non-union outsiders.
He has watched as the petition has grown steadily, day by day. He listened as Mr. Tuck vowed to make this an election issue.
He has ignored their plea, and betrayed their confidence.
And his motion is yet another poorly conceived attempt to stem the tide.
Insult on top of injury.
With friends like Matthew, ATU never really stood a chance.
Now that everyone is talking about whether to privatize, the bigger question of whether to LRT is getting buried.
ReplyDeleteGo back to the bigger question and see the forest, not the trees.
Sorce
@Tuck. The petition is okay bit it's too little and too passive. Continue with it but start forming lawful public protests in the streets.
ReplyDeleteSorce
make sure you have numbers before you do thsat
DeleteSorce
the numbers are the challenge.
DeleteThe Hamilton District Labour Council could be providing more effective co-ordination on the issue in my opinion. Have CUPE formally support ATU. Get the Presidents of the Police and Fire Associations to confirm solidarity.
And how can LiUNA publicly support a plan which privatizes the route with non union outsiders? Ask them (I did) you too may be startled by the response.
"He demonstrated his loyalty by voting in favour of privatizing the route with non-union outsiders"
DeleteTheres approx 4000 ATU members working in the GTHA. The ATU petition has less than 500 signatures. They clearly dont have any numbers or momentum if thier own rank and file arent signing.
Stompin Cam
"...forming lawful public protests in the streets"
DeleteThere have been several already.
Where were you?
Councillor Green spoke at both pro ATU rallies.
Stompin Cam
there are over 600 today....growing steadily day by day. Most be torturous for some.
DeleteAnd with Mr. Greens motion now delayed until August, it will easily meet its goal of 1,000 signatures.
Buzz
Even if the petition gets 1000 signatories thats only .16% of the population of Hamilton.
DeleteOr another way of looking at it. 1000 signatories of the petition is only %25 of the 4000 ATU membership in the GTHA.
And the ATU would consider support of less than 1% of the citizens of Hamilton and 25% of their own membership reaching a "goal"?
Ok then.
Stompin Cam
2014 Ontario General Election
DeleteHESC: NDP 19,958 votes
Hamilton Centre: NDP 18,697 votes
Hamilton Mountain: NDP 23,006 votes
61,000 Hamiltonians just like the colour orange.
Voted
Or another way of looking at it. 1000 signatories would be double the largest turnout for a pro LRT rally
DeleteWalter
Or put another way, the pro LRT petition thats been less than 10 months has 1757 signatories.
DeleteThe No Lrt petition was up for over a year and had 189 signatories.
And how many people attended the anti LRT rally? Zero.
Did the ATU have reps at the pro LRT rally?
Yes they did.
Did the ATU have reps at the anti LRT rally? They did not.
Stompin Cam
you make a valid point,
Deleteconsidering the accelerated pace of the ATU petition-in comparison to the LRT-it is clear it must be receiving support from both the pro and anti camps.
I see in the Spec's online survey almost 80% of respondents feel who operates LRT is important.
T.Hunter
460 Hamilton residents have signed and there is a stronghold of support in Nova Scotia. Politicians will be hounded even in retirement.
DeleteRimshot
Correction: 1000 signatories of the petition is less than 7% of the 15000 ATU membership in the GTHA (locals 107, 113, 1572, 1573, 1587), not counting union kin in Burlington (CUPE 2723) & Oshawa-Durham (Unifor 222).
DeleteTucker
anyway you slice it, the keeptransitpublic petition has had at least 3x the commitment of the yeslrt petition over a similar timeline
DeleteMore is more.
Fergie
And the ATU is pro-LRT, so there you have it!
DeleteStark
Actually no, they are decidedly neutral, at least according to the President.
DeleteThey could not care less.
Rolf
President Tuck: "We want the best LRT possible and believe that Hamiltonians deserve nothing less."
DeleteI guess he's using the royal we.
MHSRGA
HSR/ATU has never been invited to participate in discussions.
DeleteThey have been excluded from the planning process.
Ignored during procurement.
And now you care what they think?
Sure you do.
Rolf
Is that how unions work? They only advocate for workers when invited to speak?
DeleteCec
no
DeleteRolf
Private consortiums or private partners have one goal in kind- profit. They are not like governments who look after the public interest. So, the minute a partner in a private consortium starts sensing trouble or under performing, they find ways of escape and usually they have good lawyers who know how. Sometimes, they even resign themselves to taking a hit in order to get out of the arrangement.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a lot of faith in private consortiums and no matter how hefty the penalties are for not delivering, there are always mitigating circumstances that can be cited or created.
Don't be surprised when LRT causes such a problem. I don't think our politicians are thinking strategically but rather, ideally.
Just saying
I beleive that the ATU issue is only an issue now because places like this put a light on it. If you truly were concerned for the men and women of the HSR, you would be barking this out since day one and loudly. In fact, you may make it a condition of moving any further, given that ATU/HSR are so important to Hamilton. Instead, they are being treated as an afterthought after getting media heat.
ReplyDeleteSorce
A labour beat would be a great thing to see in this day and age, but run a search and you'll see how deep the concerns run on any given blog. Aside from the last two months, most blogs have never discussed the ATU, even as they discussed the HSR.
DeleteQuarto
http://www.thehamiltonian.net/search?q=OPSEU&m=1
Deletehttp://www.thehamiltonian.net/search?q=ATU&m=1
http://www.thehamiltonian.net/search?q=%22USW%22&m=1
http://www.thehamiltonian.net/search?q=Union+&m=1
Sidebar
Hamiltonian = Tastemaker
DeletePeter R
why would they be discussing ATU....when there is nothing relevant to discuss?
DeleteToday the issue is front page of the Spec. covered thoroughly here, top story at RTH, national coverage on CBC,front page of the Bay Observer,discussed on CHCH, the "O" show.
People appear concerned today.
Buzz
If you are in a city where there is a certain group of people who are running your transit system, and then you are thinking of bringing in another system, and you don't make those people a huge concern, then you're just faking it.
DeleteRog
Modern transit systems are designed built and financed to move people for point a to point b and to provide economic stimulus. They are not job creation schemes for people at the HSR or ATU, who are not even at risk of losing their employment.
DeleteAnyone that thinks the first priority of a new transit system is making sure everyone driving a bus today can drive an LRT tommorrow your faking it. And never making it.
Stompin Cam
Why dont the politicians just say that then?
DeleteRog
I'd suggest that the ATU find a private sector partner to design/build and ATU can operate and maintain. Compare their proposal against design/build/operate/maintain private company bids and select the one that fits best with the goals of the transit in the City and not necessarily the cheapest bid.
ReplyDeleteLet them have a chance to submit a proposal but don't hamstring the project by making it a requirement that the ATU operates and maintains.
Let them compete and as I said the successful bidder doesn't necessarily have to be the cheapest one.
Jimmy
Mr. Green now claims he was told the Procurement phase was the proper time to raise objections concerning who will eventually operate the line.
ReplyDeleteTold by whom?
Who is Matthews marionettist?
When the ATU held a rally last year to draw attention to the ATUs concerns which members of Hamilton City Council where there to support the ATU? Councillor Green.
ReplyDeleteWhen the ATU held a rally this year to draw attention to the concerns of the ATU which members of Hamilton City Council where there? Councillor Green.
Who is the only member of Hamilton City Council to introduce a motion that calls for direct Council action to support the ATU? Councillor Green.
Stompin Cam
Why did Green sign off on it so far, if he knew that ATU/HSR members were at risk?
DeleteJust saying
Simple. Theres no risk to the ATU/HSR. Councillor Green ran on a vocal pro LRT stance and record. He was elected to represent all members of his ward and all the Citizens of Hamilton. The HSR drivers that may be moved of the B Line corridor routes will still be driving bus for HSR on expanded service routes being implemented all over Hamilton. The operations of the HSR are not being privatized or contracted out. The members of our local ATU and the employees of the HSR are only a small portion of the overall population. Councillor Green ran on a stance of bring the LRT to King Street for improvements and upgrades to transit and the many economic benefits and development opportunities. And the billion dollar investment from the province. To risk all of those benefits to the city at large just so a few dozen bus drivers dont have to change routes would be irresponsible and negligent. So Councillor Green is supporting continuing to give his time effort and support to both the LRT and the ATU.
DeleteStompin Cam
If Green is so sincere with his support, why does he refuse to sign the petition?
DeleteHe could be the only member of Council to actually put his name on the line.
Does he believe lip service will be more effective?
Buzz
Green attended a rally (but didn't speak?)
DeleteSigned a few autographs, was seen snapping a couple of selfies, and was attempting to distribute roses to the rank and file.
Thanks for stopping by.
Buzz
Councilor Green may be "seen to be" doing more than most, but others have been at least honest enough to admit that support for ATU at this late date is more symbolic than anything. But continue the play acting. i am hoping Mr. Tuck sees right through it.
ReplyDeleteSorce
Well. As stated Councillor Greens vocal and public support for the ATU and their position go back to last year, behind the scenes and at two very public events. Yous say its a show but its a show no other Council member came out for.
DeleteYour say some say that Councillor Greens council motion is symbolic or doomed but introducing binding resolutions to council is far more than symbolism. And it again, a concrete effort no other member of council has made.
Stompin Cam
Mr.Tuck has made it clear he believes that deliberations on the MOA were the only time to be addressing concerns respecting operations. Everyone on Council-except one-is in agreement on that point.
DeleteDespite their close relationship, Green either ignored Tuck, was unaware, or decided he knew better. And someone else now has Matthews ear....but who?
Green has unabashedly claimed to be HSR's greatest champion on Council, which made his betrayal all the more difficult to fathom. With friends like Matthew...
Such selfishness is rarely rewarded, and this will play out as it should. The motion is doomed, and Council will collectively scold Green for his antics. Fluff.
Green has embarrassed the residents of Ward 3 with his sideshow. Mr. Tuck will remind them in the fall of 2018.
I attended both rallies, and recall Green as the opening speaker at only one.
DeleteSuffice to say, if he had kept his promise then, we would not be having this conversation now.
Fergie
I never claimed he was the opening speaker at either. I said he attended and help organize both rallies. I also dont remember him making any promise at either rally and I was at both. What promise is it that you say he made?
DeleteStompin Cam
Are you a member of the local?
DeleteBuzz
Which local?
DeleteStompin Cam
Green has demonstrated contempt for our Police Services.
ReplyDeleteHis advocacy has left ATU members feeling betrayed and disappointed.
Are our firefighters next on Greens radar?
What does Matthew have against organized labour?
Green has the right to make claims and seek a decision from an appropriate body. But that's off topic so i would dwell on it. His advocacy for ATU I find a little unconvincing given that he voted to move forward with LRt where he could have held out at a crucial time and use the HSR issue as leverage.
DeleteSorce
Jackson demonstrated convincingly that approving the MOA meant 36 operators and 4 maintenance staff from HSR would be losing their jobs when LRT replaces the Express on King.
DeleteGreen voted in favour.
10-5.
Please note that this thread is not about an incident that occurred involving a HSR driver and a passenger.
ReplyDeleteThe Hamiltonian has no stance on that issue. Comments that are off topic will not be published.
Considering that the P3 question has loomed over transit since at least 2009, how long has the ATU been lobbying council, MPPs, and Metrolinx with their concerns? If so, how was their case/cause impacted by the "toxic culture" dilemma?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/yourcitymycity/2010/03/03/private_transit_less_rare_than_youd_think.html
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4599199-city-plans-hsr-shakeup-in-wake-of-toxic-workplace-culture/
Asking
Metrolinx looking down it's nose at HSR?
DeletePot, meet kettle.
In other words, did ATU brass lobby for its members' interests at the beginning of the process or did they wait until it helped build profile for union leadership?
DeleteAsking
The place the spotlight on ATU began was on The Hamiltonian. Then suddenly, everyone else started paying attention.
ReplyDeleteAn Observer
as for his support for LRT, " I wouldn't say it's conditional" says Mr. Green, adding his support for ATU/HSR should come as no surprise.
ReplyDeleteMaybe someone just needs to have Matthew define "support". Maybe this is just a language, or comprehension issue.
A terrible misunderstanding.
orangemike.
some people remain unable to appreciate the intricacies of personality driven wedge politics.
ReplyDeleteGreen will one day be recognized as a brilliant statesman well ahead of his time.
Demi
ATU 107 held a public rally at the McNab Street Terminal on June 28th, 2017 in support of their "Keep Transit Public" campaign.
ReplyDeleteCouncilor Green was noticeably absent.
The petition promoted here is likely to have negligible effect because it has not been assembled in a manner that will see it read into the record, thereby obligating the government to respond.
ReplyDelete• Petitioners must be residents of the Province of Ontario
• A petition must contain original signatures only, written directly into the face of the petition
• Each person petitioning the Legislative Assembly must print his or her name and address and sign his or her name under the text of the petition.
• A petition must be addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.
• Petitions addressed to the Government of Ontario, or to a particular Minister will not be accepted.
• Petitions must be written, typewritten or printed. Email, faxed or photocopied petitions are not admissable and will not be presented.
It's unfortunate that this campaign has not positioned itself to engage those who are positioned to influence the outcome they seek.
Hansard
I signed the petition.
ReplyDeleteAnd in doing so, I received responses from, (and had further communication with) Mayor Eisenberger, Councilor's Collins, Jackson, Skelly, Pearson, and Johnson, as well as from MPP's Taylor, McMeekin, and Oosterhoff( bi-partisan interest on display!)
I think it is fair to conclude those who are in position to influence are aware.
It is understood they are under no procedural obligation, and are free to ignore and/or dismiss the petition at their own discretion.
This is a fine opportunity for elected officials to reveal themselves on the matter, and demonstrate the courage of their convictions.
Time will tell
better than 60 names added to the petition today, it appears they will easily hit their goal by tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteRather than losing interest, public support seems to be increasing steadily,day by day.
There should be an interesting discussion at the G.I.C. meeting on August 9th, when Councilor Green's motion is discussed.
Congratulations to Mr. Tuck and the rank and file of ATU 107 for engineering an effective public relations campaign.
955 Hamiltonians have signed on to this petition in the last 52 days! That's almost 1% of the HSR's total daily boardings. Wait until the rest of the ridership weighs in!
ReplyDeleteBargaining Unit
well over 1,000 signed the petition yesterday! Weighing in.
DeleteRolf
I appreciate being able to revise the text of the ask. Makes it more inclusive.
DeleteGondolier
What was the estimated attendance at Festival of Friends, again?
DeletePress Gang
There have been dozens if not hundreds of petitions launched around hydro rates over the last 15 years. Same with Drive Clean, wind farms, you name it. Keeps them occupied and helps pass the hours.
ReplyDeleteDemocrazy
it took the "pro lrt" petition 10 months to get to 1,757 signatures before fizzling out.
ReplyDeleteit has taken the "keeptransitpublic" campaign less than 6 weeks to eclipse them, and it is picking up steam.
And this development has clearly gotten attention where it is needed...with skittish LRT obsessed fanatics.
Online petitions are like online polls: For entertainment purposes only.
ReplyDeletePolitical engagement is all that matters. It's good that the ATU has stopped trying to deny this reality.
Zoomer
prepare to be entertained,
DeleteA poll in today's edition of the Spec. has a solid majority of Hamiltonian's who would prefer to build steps at Albion Falls before embarking upon LRT in Hamilton.
I think you mean "the other pro-LRT petition." This isn't an anti-LRT petition. It merely argues that publicly owned, publicly operated LRT is preferable to publicly owned, privately operated LRT.
ReplyDeleteKorova
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deleteno that is not what I meant, the 2 petitions have little (if anything) in common, and the keeptransitpublic campaign is definitely not a pro lrt undertaking.
Deletekeeptransitpublic has not had a single "anchor institution" publicly support them.
Hamilton Health Sciences, McMaster University, Arcelor-Mittal....not one has thrown their support behind ATU/HSR.
Mayor Eisenberger has never publicly endorsed the undertaking. Not a single sitting Councilor has signed the petition. Ted McMeekin does not want to keep transit public.
Only real people have signed the petition to keep transit public in Hamilton.
Taxpayers.
Voters.
And they have done so in numbers that have quickly surpassed the support shown the "we want lrt" petition.
Imagine how different things would be if local LRT advocates had embraced local transit providers.
An opportunity squandered.
"Our goal is to ensure that we keep transit public in Hamilton and that the highest standards are maintained. That is why we have launch our keeptransitpublic.ca campaign and are asking Hamiltonians to sign our petition... We want the best LRT possible and believe that Hamiltonians deserve nothing less."
DeleteVerbatim
Eric Tuck, president of ATU local 107 emphasized his union is "very deliberately refraining from public advocacy for or against light rail itself"
DeleteWhich is why LRT advocates have thrown HSR under the bus.
For advocates promoting a badly flawed vision, ambiguity could not be tolerated.
If you weren't declared, you were the enemy.
They have the votes they need. HSR will continue to operate transit service-any transit service-in Hamilton for the foreseeable future.
I don't see real people. I see names and places made of characters made of zeroes and ones.
ReplyDeleteAlthough if, as you say, this is an anti-LRT petition, it should not be astonishing that pro-LRT institutions withheld endorsement.
Smithee
real people will be on the steps of City Hall at 8 a.m. tomorrow morning for a rally.
ReplyDeleteVery short notice, yet I am willing to bet there will be more present than ever attended anything similar in support of LRT.
I can't wait to say hello to Councilor Green, think I will bring him a donut.
Hopefully more people than last week's rally. As you say, short notice.
DeleteApropos of nothing, why do drivers smoke in the MacNab Transit Terminal, in defiance of posted warnings? Come to think of it, why is it illegal to smoke in a city park but not in an area designed to corral members of the public?
Curioso
"Very short notice, yet I am willing to bet there will be more present than ever attended anything similar in support of LRT"
ReplyDeleteA bet you would loose. One hundred supporters at the ATU rally. Far below ALL pro LRT rallies in Hamilton.
Stompin Cam